How the U.S. Works
I've said before that I thought terrorists would be more effective if they sponsored peaceful protests rather than acts of terror. They need advocates in the west to help sway public opinion, and acts of terror just turn public opinion against them. This is just a guess, but maybe the reason they don't think peaceful protest will work is because they don't understand how the U.S. works, so I thought I'd give some examples of how some issues in the U.S. are being worked out. This paticular entry will only contain one example, but I'll bring up others later.
As most people know, the U.S. has something called the Separation of Church and State. This means that the government will not do anything to support one religion over another. Now, our society has historically been mostly Christian, and we have a lot of Christian elements in our government and in our society.
Shortly after World War II, my city built a cross on top of a local mountain called Mount Soledade to commemorate the soldiers who had died. Since that time, the city has been responsible for maintaining the site and the cross. Lately, a bunch of athiests have decided that the city is violating the separation of church and state because it is spending tax money to maintain the cross, and they entered into a legal battle to get the city to take the cross down. On the other side of this battle are people who would like to see the cross stay. They mounted a counter attack arguing that the city could sell the land to another group that could then take the responsibility to maintain the cross, then the state wouldn't be spending tax money on this. So, they did this, but they didn't have the bidding be open enough and the athiests argued that this still wasn't legal for some reason so now they're having to do this all over again only slightly differently.
This issue is still not resolved. We have some kind of a vote on it this November when we vote on a lot of other issues. However, the point is that we have a controversy over here and nobody killed anybody over it.
By the way, although I'm an athiest, I don't agree with the taliban-like actions that some athiests have. I licken the attempt to force the removal of the Mount Soledade cross to that of the Taliban in blowing up the Buddhist statues in Afganistan. The only athiest issue like this that I am behind is the removal of the words "Under God" from our pledge of allegiance. These words were not in the original pledge, and I don't like having to insert a lie every time I pledge allegiance to my country.
For those who are interested but don't already know it, our pledge of allegiance goes as follows:
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
posted by LeRoy at 5:46 AM
8 Comments:
Interesting post LeRoy. But you somehow forgot one thing to mention :) those terrorists are nothing like what we are...by that I mean, they learnt to be the way they are. And as someone had said before, they let their children go to universities or high schools in the West while as a result of that, they still do what they intend to do. Is the West (or USA) their enemy? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I still haven't heard what those terrorists exactly want. Is it power? Is it revenge? Is it the love of killing..their discovery of their 'new hobbie'? Pick and choose, they can only be possibilities but unlikely to be the real reason.
But think about it. Do protests speak louder than terrorist attacks with such people? No, they don't. Those terrorists are trying to prove a very big point. A big point that they wouldn't want to use the technique of peaceful protests. Personally, I still believe this is about trying to kick the West out of the Middle East without the concerns of the people in the Middle East. They are doing what they want, not exactly what the whole majority of what people want (but yes, there are people who support those terrorists quite a lot, country and people..). It seems as though the terrorists want nothing to do with the West but they got a lot involved with them in the past, for the least.
The one difference with the USA and other remaining countries in this world is it has, as you said, a seperation of Church and State. I'm not an expert in any political or historical branch but are other western countries like that? UK? Canada? Australia even? I don't know specifically about how religion revolves in these countries. However, this seperation, in my opinion is something I call unique to have and as a result of the years of American unsatisfaction, it came out this way. (I haven't read the history of USA closely..only bits and pieces of it. I can barely study my own books for uni!).
The ideology of having a seperation between a religion and state cannot be done for countries like the Middle East, and that's because of what? Power...the need of wanting to enforce their belief on others or simply the need of making the people shut up and sit down on their seat without a single word from them! It's a problem alright! But there isn't much one can do about it other than suggest a better way to live their 'unusual Muslim life'. Most Middle Eastern leaders won't really try to pull out two ears though, better expect one ear only! They don't like being told what to do lol. Demanding them to change their 'life style' could result in a war that we may all regret at some point. It's already a problem as it is in Iraq, that's not an official war against terrorism, or is it? ......With my sarcasm caps on, I thought the war on Iraq was a war of liberation!! So much for the truth in this life, haa!?
Anyway, in reference to your last comment though, you had mentioned that you take my treatise of Mohammed in consideration but it still hasn't entirely convinced you that he was a man of peace (not that I expect you to change your mind about him that quickly). I find it quite suspicious though. What is it you think Mohammed isn't peaceful after the billions of Muslims you see knowing him, his wonderful honesty, words and history of his life? I'll await for someone to have a responsible answer to my question. Never have I yet read or heard a fair answer on that question apart from...the usual you know what, of him being a..'etc etc'...you can fill in the blanks if you want.
Oh damn...*as she scrolls up to see how much she wrote* ..errrr...long post it is again. I'm sorry about that, lol. I think I have this issue where I have to write long paragraphs for anything...
Maybe this comment section should limit down the amount of words allowed to use, don't you think?..
Sara.
Our separation of church and state did come about, as you said, after years of unsatisfaction, but that unsatisfaction was in Europe before Columbus discovered the "New World". This country was founded, in part, by people who were discriminated against because of their religious beliefs. Rather than put up with that discrimination, they came here. Around the late 1700s, when we broke off from England and formed our own country, there was a group of men who got together to decide what this new country would look like. They wrote what they called the Constitution which stated basic guidelines that this country would follow. There was a lot of arguing about what was going to go into this Constitution. Many wanted this separation of church and state, and many did not. One of our forefathers, Thomas Jefferson, was a big proponnent of the separation of church and state. Partly through his arguments, and partly through our history of being the victims of religious persecution, he won out and we now have this separation.
However, even to this day, there are people who would like to see this country be a Christian country, even if they don't dare say that out loud. Most of our leadership is Christian, and many people think that if you're not Christian, you can't really be a good person. They may not say this directly, but deep down I think that's what they believe.
One problem I see with organized religion (as opposed to merely a personal belief) is that the organizers of the religion have to try to recruit members. They have to convince people that they are better off if they join their church (or mosque or synagogue or whatever), and that leads to the belief of the members that they must be better off than those who are not members of their religion.
This isn't to say that there isn't also a lot of benefit to religion, it is just one downside that is causing a lot of problems as people from different parts of the world start to interact more.
Anyway, I'm rambling a little bit.
I don't know how many countries have an official separation of church and state the way we do, but I think most western countries (North and South American, and Europe), as well as Japan and Taiwan, have at least a de facto separation. This comes from the idea that the government represents the interests of all of its citizens, not just those of a particular religion. As far as I know (and that isn't very far), there are only a handful of countries that don't have this separation, and they are mostly concentrated in the Middle East. But I have to admit, I'm really not certain about any countries in Africa, or about China or North Korea. I know the old Soviet Union mandated atheism, but that ended under Gorbachev in the early 1980s.
I wanted to address you points about Mohammed, but I have to go to a parent-teacher conference this morning, and I need to start getting ready. Let me just say a couple of things. I thought I had read somewhere about Mohammed creating Islam to unite the Jews and Arabs against the elite in Mecca, but I don't know where I read it, so I could be wrong. Also, I have read that the Koran does have a couple of lines where it promotes killing the infidel, and I had thought I had read something like that in some version of the Koran that I found on the web shortly after 9/11, but I haven't been able to find it again. I've also heard that the Koran had lines promoting peace and good relationships with the infidel, and I thought I had seen that in the Koran as well. My theory was that Mohammed transitioned from a warrior leader to a peace time leader, and that his philosophy also changed, so the Koran contains elements of both.
However, you said two things that made me start to rethink this. First, you said Mohammed only used violence as a last resort, second, you said something to the effect that Mohammed didn't start Islam, he was a member of a small group of Muslims that were being persecuted, and he was able to expand Islam through his ideas.
Anyway, I have to go now, but I'll try to finish this later.
LeRoy
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I thought that what LeRoy really wanted to know was if women wear anything from Victoria's Secret under their Burkas ;)
I'm interested in people's opinions of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.
I really like LeRoys analysis about why everytime Palestinians and Israelis are close to a compromise, something happens to destroy it. If a Palestine state is ever created, the terrorist will be out of a job until they find a new cause.
-j
The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is a no win situation. We can always wait for another 50 years until both sides surrender…there’s a long time to come until those two sides give up…probably after a few generations.
Both sides did try to compromise with one another but their reasons for their greed of land always takes over their minds as a result, which ends up ‘destroying’ the whole progress they got to. The wall being created will only create more problems…for Palestinians to take revenge of the wall. So much for peaceful loving people. They’re both big trouble!
Problem is…I have a ‘guarantee voucher’ that says Iraq will turn out that way, just like another Palestine-Israeli situation. Only that Iraqis will be dealing with terrorists and religious leaders enforcing their view on them. God forbid...gotta be the worst possible scenario…
I think that the worst possible scenario is civil war.
The best possible scenario is that Iraq ends up with a democratic government made of Shiites and Sunnies.
The most probable scenario is another totalitarian government. But then again, what do I know? :)
I think they should create a Palestinian state and get a new leader. Then the world can pitch in and help improve their economy in order to improve their standard of living and make them less dependent on Israel. That may slow terrorism some.
-j
I live in France where the wearing of headscarves by Muslim girls has been in the news a lot. Crosses etc. are also banned in school. The primary and maternal (kindergarten) schools will dress up to celebrate Halloween and Christmas. This is what happens in a republic
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